Damn thousands killed [Archive] - FLG

WebHog

08-31-2005, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by DeadLamb
Nice lamer looter action going on down there too.. WTF?!? I can sort of understand looting food being at some point it's about need and not like there is even an option to pay in the first place..

sep a big trash sack of jeans and so on? lame.. They should just randomly shoot looters in the legs.. "That's right, limp away with your DVD players you POS!!"

I agree with you. I've got to admit that if it were me and my kids were starving and noone was there to tell you where to go to get basic necessities I'd be in there getting food/clothes. I don't think I'd be too concerned with a 27" TV however. What a-holes! Just where the hell do you think you're going to plug it in?

It's amazing to me to think about the Tsunami folks who had no warning what so ever. That was tragic! Now for all the people in the hurricane area who had what??... 4-7 days advanced warning and decided not to do anything but keep their fingers crossed? That's just plain stupid. I mean I understand the "we've been through them before, so we should be ok" mentality, but come on atleast go buy yourself an inflattable raft or something.

Lessons learned:
1.) Build the damn city above Sea Level
2.) In the event of a Category 5+ hurricane get the Fawk out!
3.) I'll hand over the mike now... NEXT!

Burden

08-31-2005, 03:35 PM

Also in a time like this, its lovely to see hotels jacking up the price of there hotel up 300%. Watching CNN yesterday, some motel raises its rate from 79.99 to 199.99. That is such bullshit. As for the looters, what a bunch of dicks. Lets steal that DVD that i really want and need. I dont really understand the point of stealing DVD's CD's and other electronic items anyway. I know most people steal for drugs, but when u see little kids stealing this stuff it is just sad. Sorry didnt mean to go off topic.

DeadLamb

08-31-2005, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by WebHog
2.) In the event of a Category 5+ hurricane get the Fawk out!

OH HELL yes.. See if there is one thing that people who don't swim that well never mess with it's flood water.. So mykul and I are LONG gone with even a little talk of water everywhere..

I also don't get that people are in a huge flood area and don't have at least those little $5 foam kick boards or even POS cheap life vests on or pool toys or or or or. Ok, that is not going to 100% save you but better then nothing..

BIGKahuna

08-31-2005, 04:12 PM

Having lived in the Pacific for a long time we were much more prepared for Typhoons as they are called in the Pacific. It amazing me that many people could have died and that the city was so ill prepared.

I was in Guam in 1976 durin the Super Typhoon Pamela, it had winds at 165 MPH and 24-hour rainfall totals near 27 inches. Only 9 people died during that one. In the 60's in Guam 95% of the homes on the island were destroyed by a Super Typhoon. I believe maybe 12 people died for that one?

What is happening in NO is tragic but a lesson in preparedness. They need to beef up the building codes like they did in Guam after the 60's typhoon.

I remember one year I was living on an island only 1/4 mile wide and long when a typhoon ironically called Pamela again hit. I was on a roof of a house watching a Matson container beat the hell out of the hospital and waves taking out houses in 1-2 strikes. We do not bury caskets too deep in the islands due to the water table, so when the water came in the caskets rose up out of the ground and were scattered all over the place. It was nasty to say the least. Despite all that only a few folks died. In fact I made the local paper I found a baby floating down the road and snapped him up.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 12:20 PM

These people may have had 4-7 days to get out. Where were they supposed to go??? Man the degree of proverty down there is unbelievable! So some of them had not enough money to evacuate. If anything you would have thought the local government would have moblized the guard or whatever and forced or assisted these people in an evacuation. They knew how bad this storm was going to be. Now they have utter chaos. The local government down there sucks and I think they blew it. As for the looters,what can I say there will always be a few dickheads that create trouble(shooting at helos.looting,preying on the weak these people will be dealt with but with that said they are not
represenative of the majority of the people down there!!!! I know I've been there and I know some of them!!!!!!

Burden

09-01-2005, 12:31 PM

What I dont understand is that Congress isnt rushing into action sooner to get aid. Not going to be there till tomorrow night. The whole Terry Schiavo (sp??) event they went in on a sunday night to make her feeding tube stay in, now that there are 100's of thousands of people in need of help, they will get there in a few days. I guess we know where there priorities are... :mad:

honestplayer

09-01-2005, 01:09 PM

the whole thing makes me sick.

the people left behind (in a city of 500k people, 50-100,000 were left behind) are those who were the poorest or received no assistance in the evacuation. when i was in new orleans, i know i passed housing that looked like the third world, and the patronage system in place didnt exactly make the evacuation fair as blacks were probably totally ignored on the priorties scale they use in Louisiana.

so what happens? they die and suffer. its really a sick commentary on the state of equality in America.

i just hope that something can be done quickly to save as many people as possible :(

WebHog

09-01-2005, 01:19 PM

I've been to NOrleans B4 as well. Great city, don't get me wrong. I've loved every visit. Didn't want to come across like people there are idiots for not getting out. I've come to realize after watching the news for the last few days that many of those that stayed are as you described Hezimoe (elderly, kids and poor). I'm in aw of why more isn't being done to take care of the basic necessities as well. Makes me mad as hell!! Kick it in gear already and make an impact!

If we were there in the middle of it I'm sure we'd all have different opinions than staring at the news 2,500 mi away waiting to see what "they want" to tell us. The stories coming out of there are horrific. Why turn into savages and fire upon a hospital?
Or why cover those stories? Why not cover the positive side? I still to this moment have no idea of how wide spread this issue is, does anyone else? Is this issue just so large that we have a few people is all areas of damage? Where's the hardest hit areas? From what I can tell watching CNN, the focus seems to be NO, but that's not even ground zero.

Doesn't it seem odd that with all the technological breakthroughs that we had over the years, that we can't get a basic line of communication to all those still left there? Where to go for help, food, buses, or whatever...

Perhaps busing people out is the answer b4 the storm hit, perhaps getting a better handle on what the potential impact is going to be ahead of time might help as well. Hell maybe we can even figure out a way to blow up hurricanes before they land. Who knows??

Burden

09-01-2005, 01:47 PM

I think part of the trouble for getting to some of the harder hit areas is that CNN and fox and what not cant get there. I'm sure there is a ton of debris in the way, and it just makes it impossilbe to do. Yeah I dont know why the goverenment hasnt kicked it into gear either. But more aide needs to be brought to people. They dont have water in most places either, and that is just bad.

Gremlin

09-01-2005, 02:59 PM

What makes it more wierd (if you know a better word please let me know) now there is fing sniper shooting at a damn hospital. WTF??

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 03:18 PM

THis is a sad sad situation and the media whores are loving the hell out of this . Everybody is going to feel this one no matter who or what you are. I just hope they deliver the relief with as much zeal as they did when the tsunami hit. This may draw people closer together , who knows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

honestplayer

09-01-2005, 03:43 PM

i hope it does - i dont agree with the politicians (both sides) who are now fighting over blame and whether we should rebuild the city at all. f*ck all that.

they just need to get down there with aid, make sure the people who need it the most get it, and help rebuild peoples lives and homes.

Avery Hawk

09-01-2005, 05:51 PM

So where is the outpouring of Aid and assistance from the rest of the world like in the Tsunami last year?????? Because we are not a jerkwater backwards nation we don't deserve assistance or sympathy?...where the fuck is Evian (sp?) with the free bottled water for the survivors (those fucking french) I think that this proves it. We should stop ALL humanitairan aid abroad and bring it all home to "help ourselves"! Let the world around us self-distruct ...defend ourselves then go claim and subjecitate who/whatever is left......

:RANT=OFF:

Moddy

09-01-2005, 06:09 PM

I wasn't gonna chime in here, but I just watched the news - and holy fuck is all I can say. Unfuckingbeliveable that this "great" nation has tens of thousands of people stuck in ONE spot without food or water, and no one has done SHIT to help them out. Fucking GAY in my opinion. I understand that this is a catastrophe<sp?> on a HUGE scale, but come the fuck on - do SOMETHING. Those idiots who are shootin n lootin need to be dealt with - but not now - take care of the big picture FIRST.

FUck it pisses me off.

antishatter

09-01-2005, 06:20 PM

I am positive that once a disease hits these people, and it will hit them, their will be thousands more dead.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 07:07 PM

Like I said before the local government down here is made up of a bunch of self serving incompetent asshole's. The political makeup of that region is full of political corruption so when a disaster such as katrina comes along thier ineptness shows and it is really showing now!! All I can do is donate what money I can and pray!! I am really pissed off at all these delays. I cant believe that this is happening in this country with all that we have. Eventually they will pull there heads out of their asses and get going but how many people will suffer as a result of this blatant incompetence???

Bunnyslayer

09-01-2005, 07:13 PM

It wasn't a category five before Sunday so they didn't know it was going ot be this bad. This is a travesty or political retardation at its best. It was nice to see that angry chihuahua Anderson whateverthefuck from CNN tear into a dumbass senator who was patting all these other politicians on the back. Totally ridiculous. Why aren't we shooting the looters dead? Why aren't there more National Guard on the ground ther already. 30,000 on the way. Ok. I know we have out NG in fucking Iraq! but really why aren't there more there right now. Why are we letting cocksmoking snipers stop evacuations? Get you ass out there and get the people out. I am irritated beyond belief right now. As for the rest of the world, there have been a lot of aid offers. We actually turned down Russia's offer for some unknown political reason. Dipshit political nigthmare right now.

Rant paused.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 07:17 PM

amen bro!! rant paused as well Im spent!!!

antishatter

09-01-2005, 07:43 PM

IMO the local government can be blamed for 90% of the issues being experienced. They should of know how many couldnt get out on their own, and they know that their sitting in a toilet bowl basically, they have adiquated (spl?) dams with pumps that are old, and wont be able to deal with major flooding. They should of had water and food on hand to be able to feed those who didnt have access to transportaion out (ie: the poor).

Bullfrog

09-01-2005, 08:10 PM

While I understand many of your frustrations I think a lot of it is misguided. If you have never been involved in life-safety disaster planning it's hard to understand the magnitude of resources needed to provide relief on this scale. When you have to base rescue operations 100+ miles away from major disaster areas there isn't much you can do. When man-made machines go against mother-nature all you realize is how SMALL we really are.

No matter what kind of pre-planning the sheer size would over-whelm any planning you could come up with. Is there some blame to be placed on local government, federal services and news services....sure. BUT...there isn't much more that can be done then what is happening now. Floods and the damage from it have to be the most difficult to deal with. You just can't push the water out of the way with a bulldozer. You can't pump it someplace else. As much as we all want to see our citizens rescued and for people to show the better parts of human kindness. It's a tall order when everything for as far as you can see is gone.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 08:46 PM

When I was in the navy as a hospital corpsman/xray tech alot of us had to serve on a mobil fleet hospital unit The purpose of this unit was to set up a functional operating hospital in a matter of days or hours any where in the world in case of conflict or war!! I mean this was a fully operating hospital with xray,operating rooms, cast room, triage rooms etc.etc.etc and a ward that good accomadate up to six hundred beds. In a matter of hours this could all be accomplished!!! It was awsome to see!! Why in the hell can't that be used here? What has it been a week? I know you cant put the entire blame on the government but man I really feel like they dropped the ball on this one,especially the local gov!!!

DeadLamb

09-01-2005, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by antishatter
IMO the local government can be blamed for 90% of the issues being experienced.

there is ZERO excuse for living in an area that can be full on PUNKED by weather in any given year and not having some sort of base like support kit in your home..

Ok, I understand some are very poor so throw out the $$$ items like a power gen or a damn boat.. Sep water you can store in old soda liters, food you can buy over the course of months (if one needs to save up to buy extra) if your diabetic have a few weeks at least worth of your meds.. It's just common sense.

Now in California you can get blind sided by an earth quake and not have water and so on but in this case they saw something was on the way days before hand.. Again, totally understand one might not be able to afford this or that or maybe even to leave. Also understand in no way can the gen public hope to move water and large scale works projects..

Sep "Ohhh where are they!?!? We don't have any water!! We don't have any food!! WHERE ARE THEY!!?".. errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it's been just a few days and it's lots of miles miles and just a ton of people +++++.. It GOING to take a few days. One should have a few days worth of stuff..

Then again the media is NOT going to film the guy who filled up milk jugs with water 3 days before being that's not "good tv" as a woman crying..

I must say it's HUGE of texas to take in all those people. Most of them being very poor and nothing really to go back too.. Wonder if that will put a drain or texas over the next few years being they might as well move there..

BIGKahuna

09-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Bullfrog brings up a lot of good points. It has hard to blame any single person. I think the local and state govt if anyone should absorb most of the blame. Watching it play out in real time on TV just bring it to life and most of can not help but be arm chair quarterbacks.

What was unusal about this storm was even after it was gone the waters kept rising due to the levy break.

The only thing that I do not understand is why we have not fully evacuated the hospitals. To me this is a no brainer and helicopters should have been running 24/7.
Nurses and doctors are actually bagging patients on rooftops, can you imagine pumping that lil bag over and over for hours upon hours to push O2 into someones lungs.. just nuts.

Two of my brothers are headed there to help restore the communcations for the company I use to work for. I wish I was less of a pencil pusher and more of a craft guy working with them again.......
I sent my bro my digi camera though and told him to click off a few shots for me.

Boss99

09-01-2005, 09:13 PM

I guess the critters are starting to come out now, and Water Mocassins, alligators and even a couple sharks are out now and probably picking people off now.

I understand that people are pissed about this and by all means, this semi-public forum is the proper place for this discussion. However, with that in mind, presidence has been set with the magnitude of this disaster. I've never heard of an entire major city being evacuated that wasn't part of some crazed natural disaster movie. What was the stat, 80% of the city is under at least 6 feet of water?

Also, I saw something else that really disturbed me as I was watching the news. Some prick reporter was giving some guy a crazy guilt trip because he was in some store picking up some candy bars and bottles of soda. Talking about, "What you're doing is wrong, you know that right?"

What a cock. It's called SURVIVAL. I couldn't give a damn if any of you guys owned a store I was getting food from if half my house was underwater and my wife and kid needed food/diapers/water/etc, I'm taking some fucking stuff off the shelves and bouncing.

fishmonger

09-01-2005, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by DeadLamb
I must say it's HUGE of texas to take in all those people. Most of them being very poor and nothing really to go back too.. Wonder if that will put a drain or texas over the next few years being they might as well move there..

We have tens of thousands of new residents in Houston this week, most of them destitute. I'm taking the day off work tomorrow to help register kids from LA for school - they're being registered as homeless, and can stay as long as they need. The Astrodome is filling up, mostly with people from the Superdome. They were turning people away from blood bank I went to today, because they were all full up. No space for more blood. My neighbor hooked his boat up to his truck and pulled it nearly all the way to NO before the LA state troopers told him to go home -- too dangerous for white folk in boats down there, apparently.

The whole thing is surreal, really. I'm proud of my neighbors and community for the massive outpouring of help that's come from this area, but I can't help but feel a slight bit of dread about all those folks in the Astrodome, free to move around the city. I won't be spending any time downtown for many, many moons.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 09:38 PM

Way to go dude. I would help directly if I could. I would'nt wait that long to go downtown if I were you, not everyone there is a monster!!!!

fishmonger

09-01-2005, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by hezimoe
I would'nt wait that long to go downtown if I were you, not everyone there is a monster!!!!

Eh, I hardly ever leave my comfy little suburb, and the Astrodome is in a shitty part of town anyway. Houston is so huge (the Houston metro area is larger than Rhode Island) that it can really absorb nearly any amount of refugees without a hiccup. Hell, we have so many thugs here already that even if every person that came here was a total piece of shit, it probably wouldn't even budge the percentage point up much. The only really worrying thing is the whole mob mentality and what could happen down there in the short term - rioting, gang fights, etc. But it seems HPD is doing a good job of maintaining order down there - searching people getting off buses, etc.

fishmonger

09-01-2005, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by irishdoh
Yea, hat makes me sad... Ok, I'm over it.

That's pretty fucked up man.

Me, I'm pretty shaken up by the whole thing, and motivated to help as much as I can. In the scheme of things, NO is pretty damn close to me. That could be me sitting there, everything I ever owned blown away in an evening, watching my city destroy itself from afar, wondering if my neighbors or relatives were alive or dead.

I bet you'd care more if you lived basically next door to it. Hell, my buddies and I used to go to NO every year for Mardi Gras. Spent a lot of time in that shithole town.

/soapbox

fishmonger

09-01-2005, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by BIGKahuna
They need to beef up the building codes like they did in Guam after the 60's typhoon.

I could see them doing that in the future. Not possible in the past, however. NO is a very old city, they would have had to level the whole town just to get it "up to code". You have to weigh the benefit with the potential cost.

What I don't understand is why a town that big would only have a single levee. Why didn't they have multiple levees, one behind another? That makes no sense at all to me.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 09:59 PM

man that town has always been a shit hole but it sure was a hell of a place to party I mean the music was off the hook!!!! I just feel really sad about what is going on now and I don't like the news media spin on everything It's hard to believe them any kudos to your help !!!

fishmonger

09-01-2005, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by honestplayer
the whole thing makes me sick.

the people left behind (in a city of 500k people, 50-100,000 were left behind) are those who were the poorest or received no assistance in the evacuation. when i was in new orleans, i know i passed housing that looked like the third world, and the patronage system in place didnt exactly make the evacuation fair as blacks were probably totally ignored on the priorties scale they use in Louisiana.

so what happens? they die and suffer. its really a sick commentary on the state of equality in America.

i just hope that something can be done quickly to save as many people as possible :(

Please, in your apparently infinite wisdom, tell me how you evacuate all those people in that short timespan. These people don't necessarily want to go either, but you've got to make them some how, because apparently the Superdome was inadequate in your estimation. We'll forward your strategy to the planners in NO, because I'm sure you'll have it all figured out for them.

The simple fact is, it's not friggin' easy; in fact, it's nearly impossible without a prior organized mass transit system, which NO was basically without.

The people with the means left, the rest were pretty much screwed. I don't think it says shit about the "state of equality in America". It says that people with money have cars, and the people with no money don't.

Christ I knew better than to read your post. Back on ignore.

hezimoe

09-01-2005, 10:04 PM

i meant to say(anyway kudos to your help)

fishmonger

09-01-2005, 10:05 PM

Originally posted by antishatter
IMO the local government can be blamed for 90% of the issues being experienced. They should of know how many couldnt get out on their own, and they know that their sitting in a toilet bowl basically, they have adiquated (spl?) dams with pumps that are old, and wont be able to deal with major flooding. They should of had water and food on hand to be able to feed those who didnt have access to transportaion out (ie: the poor).

Hindsight is 20/20. You'd have to point blame at people all the way back to the 1920's, at least.

Beyond that, how prepared do you really think San Francisco is for that 10.0 quake? Sometimes what happens is worse than what you can plan for.

Burden

09-01-2005, 11:52 PM

Yeah I am amazed that the levee system was so bad. I mean you would think it would be up to date. I think it is holland that is built somewhat like new orleans, by that the city itself is under sea level. I mean they must have some sort of levee system as well. Anyways this is going to take years to fully restore new orleans. When are other countries gonna start throwing some aide our way. Is the UN gonna send over some supplies? We need the worlds help too, seeing as how this is the worst natural disaster to hit the US probally ever. Surely some country can send something over. Also do you think Martial Law will be put into effect in New Orleans and other areas?

DeadLamb

09-02-2005, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by fishmonger
What I don't understand is why a town that big would only have a single levee.

Ya just don't think you will every really need it.

Heck I live sort of near a levee for the american river being I'm over near the Watt bridge.. I rem for just years and years thinking "Why is that even there!?! We don't NEED THAT!!" Sure the river flooded but it never even got close the levee..

yeah right up late 89 I think it was where I saw water at the top of the levee and touching (to my total shock) the underside of the watt bridge.. "Oh guess we DO need that after all" :scared:

Swagger

09-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Just got an email from the Red Cross........Im now on a list of people that might be sent to help with "remains" recovery. That should be a ton of fun. I'll know for sure in 48hrs if Im getting sent or not.

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 04:50 AM

Please, in your apparently infinite wisdom, tell me how you evacuate all those people in that short timespan. These people don't necessarily want to go either, but you've got to make them some how, because apparently the Superdome was inadequate in your estimation. We'll forward your strategy to the planners in NO, because I'm sure you'll have it all figured out for them.

The simple fact is, it's not friggin' easy; in fact, it's nearly impossible without a prior organized mass transit system, which NO was basically without.

The people with the means left, the rest were pretty much screwed. I don't think it says shit about the "state of equality in America". It says that people with money have cars, and the people with no money don't.

Christ I knew better than to read your post. Back on ignore.

according to the blogs and on the scene reports, very little information nor coordination of resources were focused on those who needed it the most. some people were told to evacuate - others werent until after the fact. information was doled out and not broadcast widely. serious gaps. i dont care if someone is rich or poor, but in an emergency situation, everyone has a right to emergency information equally. didn't happen according to most local reports.

if you cant figure out why a modern first world nation and lone superpower like the United States cant get a few helicopters scrambled and move supplies and buses to a known location where thousands of storm refugees were huddled AFTER THREE DAYs, and call it for what it is.

the people on some of the blogs called it "inequality" not me, because of reasons i don't want to talk about - as i dont have time to waste on this.

note though, that i cancelled my sept 9 trip to new orleans (ASU vs. LSU) and had watched this whole thing a lil closer than others. right now, the idiots at LSU still want to play this game in Baton Rouge because of economic concerns ($$) 10-20 LSU players family members are still missing, LSU is currently a triage center, and the campus is under a lock down - and the LA Gov declared that all hotels cannot refuse refugees. so we sun devils were told to fly into Houston, rent a car, and drive OPPOSITE the refugees coming the other way to Houston, to see the game. no thanks.

to top it all off, the game will require police and emergency services, which could be better used for recovery efforts.

needless to say, i have lost all respect for the AD at LSU who even has been quoted as saying LA needs this game to rebuild. supposedly, our AD at ASU is going to call LSU today to see if a deal can be made to move/reschedule so LSU wont lose revenue. i will watch my other alum grad school USC play Ark. the following week instead.

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 05:06 AM

In an interview Friday on NBC's "Today," Federal Emergency Management Agency director Michael Brown stood behind the massive federal relief effort that's under way.

"I understand the mayor's frustration. ... We have been having a continuous flow of commodities into the Superdome, there were five trucks arriving last night to feed well over 50,000 people.

"We're also diverting supplies to the convention center which I learned about yesterday and that area. ... This is an absolutely catastrophic disaster," he said.

hmm, i guess he hasnt been watching the news from NO the past three days?

hezimoe

09-02-2005, 05:25 AM

Like I have said before, because of the incompetence of the local and federal goverment, anarchy reigns in No. Yet there is no excuse for the lawlessness exhibited by a small group of roving scumbags!! It embarresses and makes me angry at the same time. I'll be glad when this subsides and the decency that the majority of the folks you see comes through!!!

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 05:30 AM

i think alot of folks are going to wonder what eventually will come of all this. i thought this was interesting because of different world views:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4207542.stm

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 06:02 AM

i've been watching this site the past few days - i didnt want to advertise it because some peeps seem to get confrontational over anything they dont like that smacks of being even a little bit liberal.

SO YOU'VE BEEN WARNED - dont post anything if you dont like it. its only informational.

but the info on the emergency and some of the stuff about how people are donating room in their houses off craigslist etc. is totally amazing. so after much thought i thought i'd finally share it:

http://neworleans.indymedia.org/

DeadLamb

09-02-2005, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by honestplayer
i thought this was interesting because of different world views:

yeah that is interesting and a few of them just sound crazy..

THE best being:Hong Kong's Ta Kung Pao
"This Katrina hurricane is a 'warning' by God over President Bush's reactionary behaviour on the Kyoto Protocol."

yes gogogo there Ta Kung Pao, government funded paper for the Communist Party of China... You report that real news!! :rolleyes: :ROFL:

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 07:15 AM

LOL. hehe.

on the private foundation side of things where i work at, there are some things being lined up and alot of big names and money is getting interested/involved. so more help should be coming and i now have to watch the situation because its work related now.

the sad part is also that alot of people who regularly help are getting diverted to the aid efforts - and money originally earmarked say for emergency housing for people in Los Angeles - will probably move. so no matter, it hurts everyone in all parts of the nation.

i had a campaign on youth and education get hit - we got it out right before the storm - and now i dont think anyone is interested, which will hurt alot of kids in SoCal.

i know in the planning stages when we coordinate a private foundation response, we'll probably look at rebuilding the community and interfaith networks which have been devastated.

Boss99

09-02-2005, 07:16 AM

As desperate people without food or water scavenge to feed their families, the clueless governor issues a threat.

How incredibly sad is that. Granted, it has a bit of a media spin on it, but still, these folks are in survival mode. Let's get them some food and water STAT.

Bunnyslayer

09-02-2005, 08:35 AM

The thing I am concerned about is the response time. National Guard is usually put on some sort of alert before a natural disaster just in case. In that case they shouldn't be hitting the ground four days later. The scope of this task is enormous so I don't expect it to be easy, but just the total lack of any National presence before 2 days ago is unacceptible. The media is sensationalizing things of course but they are showing sow total bs. The FEMA director pissed me off trying to say "We didn't know about the convention center until we got here." Really? I heard about ti 2 days ago. Maybe I should be director.
I could have killed my roomate for her "Why should I care" mentality. What kind of selfish bs is that? I don't know these people. Hell I don't even like people for the most part but it bugs me to see that sort of selfishness.

Then I read Yahoo "World Stunned" thing and I should know better than to read about the geniuses around the world and what they think but this is a grat quote:

""Maybe it was punishment for what it did to Iraq, which has a man-made disaster, not a natural disaster," said the woman, who did not want to be named as she has an American manager."

or the dumbass who says its a racist thing since most of the victims are black. We need another tsunami to shut those people up.

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 09:06 AM

Defiant One

09-02-2005, 09:11 AM

Do I really need to explain why I just moved this to PP?

Continue w/this thread at your own risk.

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 09:23 AM

Every natural disaster comes in two waves. First the wind and rain arrives, then the political storm.

LOL

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 01:13 PM

because its now in this section here is the audio of the mayor of NO on his comments on outside aid:

http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3

Swagger

09-02-2005, 01:37 PM

"It is reported that black hurricane victims in New Orleans have begun eating corpses to survive."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/randall-robinson/new-orleans_b_6643.html

Im gonna have to say.....if after less than a week your EATING CORPSES.........its not about survival.

Got my inoculation shots today...just gotta see if they stick.

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 01:47 PM

damn. :)
good luck out there, man.
be safe, don't drink the water, and well, you got your shots. LOL

BIGKahuna

09-02-2005, 02:43 PM

If someone is eating corpses than they have serious problems and hunger was not one of them.

To me this is not an issue of race but an issue of poverty. The reason there are so many blacks is because they are the majority in that city and the majority of the impoverished too.

I do agree if this happened in California the response would have been better but for a different reason. I believe California would have been more prepared than the local and state government of Louisiana.

For years there have been several cities around the world that many specialist have said will be a disaster area if mother nature came a calling. N.O. was one of them and the city was not prepared when they should have been. Heck the last company I was with I was on the disaster preparedness team and we had provisions for many typical and atypical situations. I am not saying you can ever be fully prepared for such a disaster but the level of preparedness seems low.

honestplayer

09-02-2005, 06:19 PM

all i can say now since this is in the political forums now is that we had a president with his head stuck up his ass the past week. it is unacceptable to say he made a mistake that cost americans their lives needlessly - there is definitely alot of media attention now and information that he ignored this crisis. why? well that is speculation.

but there is enough proof now to say that nothing was done the past week and real idiotic moves from an administration and its officials that shows nothing but incompetency and absolutely no direction from the executive branch in the wake of a storm that devasted a major US city.

all we can do now is just pray for the dead and hope for the living.

after coming home and watching what is unraveling - i am even now more sickened and going to spend the weekend helping and volunteering with local LA drives to help the victims. i will be working a 12-hour shift helping a long beach fundraiser sat, and helping with a red cross fundraising drive on sunday in torrance.

Bunnyslayer

09-02-2005, 07:16 PM

Moddy

09-02-2005, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by honestplayer
all i can say now since this is in the political forums now is that we had a president with his head stuck up his ass the past week. it is unacceptable to say he made a mistake that cost americans their lives needlessly - there is definitely alot of media attention now and information that he ignored this crisis. why? well that is speculation.

but there is enough proof now to say that nothing was done the past week and real idiotic moves from an administration and its officials that shows nothing but incompetency and absolutely no direction from the executive branch in the wake of a storm that devasted a major US city.

all we can do now is just pray for the dead and hope for the living.

after coming home and watching what is unraveling - i am even now more sickened and going to spend the weekend helping and volunteering with local LA drives to help the victims. i will be working a 12-hour shift helping a long beach fundraiser sat, and helping with a red cross fundraising drive on sunday in torrance.
Personally, I don't think it was handled correctly either, but to place the blame on 1 person is just ignorant. There are a number of links in the chain that could have stepped up and said "HAY GUYZZZ!! THERE ARE PEEPLEZ STARVING LOL!" but no one did.

Bottom line: Fucking gay.

Makes me wonder tho - what would the response have been if there was a 10.5 earthquake in So Cal, and 1/2 of Cali slipped into the ocean? Or if there was a tsunami or something?

BIGKahuna

09-02-2005, 09:11 PM

I blame the Mayor first, there is enough blame to go around in the end but to me the local govt. should have had something in place instead of freaking out on a radio station saying all interviewing with press should stop yet he is talking to the press what a hypocrite.

Just because the President was not on site the first day and than to say that is any reason for things going slowly is ridiculous. No one said anything when it took Clinton 5 days to say anything about the tornado that killed hundreds of people in the mid-west. Should the president have been on site ... politically yes. The President does not need to physically get his hands dirty or fly into a disaster area at a drop of a dime for things to get done. He assigned folks to take of this and was in contact with locatl authorities. I think the FEMA guy is a nimwad myself.

Bottom line the Mayor of N.O. and the Governer of Louisiana knew that a direct hit would been devastating, they should have had a better plan in place. Especially since the funding for the levee was cut by the Federal Govt.

Boss99

09-02-2005, 10:01 PM

I know this thread is deadly serious and we all have nothing but the most heartfelt sympathies, thougts and prayers for those affected by this disaster, but I found this on another forum posted by someone who actually lives in LA and thought it was farking hilarious:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3918/slamlouisiana15je.gif

Swagger

09-02-2005, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by boss99

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3918/slamlouisiana15je.gif

That is pretty cool.

Just got a phone call from the Red Cross people..My hep-b test came back negative for antibodies to protect aginst hep-b...Since it takes a few months to go through the series again....I wont be able to go.

Elise the old manager from Papa John's that gave us extras like that giant box of Buffalo Wings is going, shes the one that got me signed up in the program. So im sure i'll be able to relay some interesting stories through her.

Bunnyslayer

09-02-2005, 11:43 PM

I am not a fan of Bush at all, but I like what I saw of him today. I don't have any probelms with what he has done. The rest of the idiots I do have a problem. I have an assload of respect for the Mayor though. He is a no BS guy. To bad he'll proably be politically blacklisted because he is a straight shooter rare to politics. And the tornado thing is slightly different as a tornado hits and leaves. This is different. But again Bush himself is doing fine and the personal mingling is a good thing for the victims no matter what side of the political retardation you beat your chest to.

honestplayer

09-03-2005, 05:49 AM

nah, imma about to shower and get going this morning. but here is a quote which i thought was right on because no one is complaining about the aid and support coming in now. its just why it took so long - the administration had to be "pushed" into helping which is about the best way to say it.

The 70-year-old Washington, a rag shielding her from the searing heat and a cart holding her only belongings, asked: "What took you so long? I'm extremely happy, but I cannot let it be at that. They did not take the lead to do this. They had to be pushed to do it."

wise old lady...

later out.

heh, swagger, nice one. i wouldnt go either. alot of peeps i know are heading out there in rented trucks etc. this morning i am going to man a booth for the LA County Fed to raise $ for the red cross and then i am helping an interfaith group load up a truck for houston with supplies. but no way would i want to wear anyone's shoes and do what they asked of you!

i agree on the mayor - one reporter last night was saying why the F* did the state and feds think that this was only a "municipal" rescue and recovery effort for almost a week? the mayor spent 5 days and nights nonstop with now i beleive an incredibly dedicated police force trying to do what they could - outmanned and outnumbered. the mayor does have the right to be pissed - his city was dying.

alot of things went wrong. alot of people are going to scream things - some right some wrong - about the politics. but one thing really hurts, its all those people who were lost. i really truly now beleive that they were left to die. sad to see this happen in America. :(

Swagger

09-03-2005, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by honestplayer
heh, swagger, nice one. i wouldnt go either.

I would like to go....But I cant go with the Red Cross because of the HepB....got the series back like 4 years ago when I was an EMT.....but apparently it can ware off.

I've handled bodies a few days to a couple weeks in the water.....Its one of those things you wouldnt want someone to do or see if they havent already.....and even if they have...its really bad. I only worked for the remains transport company for like a month....but saw just about every manner of decomposition you can imagin.

Worst being a 500lb shut in who died in the bath tub and wasent discovered for 2 weeks....and the dude had a shit load of cats.

Bunnyslayer

09-03-2005, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by honestplayer
i really truly now beleive that they were left to die. sad to see this happen in America. :(

You know that could be the most idiotic thing you have ever said.

fishmonger

09-03-2005, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Bunnyslayer
You know that could be the most idiotic thing you have ever said.

Don't sell him short, he says plenty of idiotic things.

honestplayer

09-03-2005, 07:47 PM

You know that could be the most idiotic thing you have ever said.

well from a right wing partisan conservative "i don't give a damn" view it might seem that way. just saying that you can't understand why someone would say that is not understanding what happened :heart:

not trying to say anything - i would just hope you open your eyes to the bigger picture. why leave hundreds behind in hospitals? thanks.

http://neworleans.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/4046.php

"[W]hen the power had gone out at one of the local hospitals, the backup generators didn't turn on and all the patients on life support died."

honestplayer

09-03-2005, 08:06 PM

Now I am getting tired of hearing all the bullcrap be spewed by the idot victims. Tired of all the "they aren't ehloing cause we're black" or the "it's genocisde. They put us in 2 areas and aren't sending in food". SHUT THE F**K UP!!!!!!!

hmmm, this is really an intelligent statement? telling people hurting real bad in desperate situations what?

try to stay human, even a lil bit :heart:

Bunnyslayer

09-03-2005, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by honestplayer
well from a right wing partisan conservative "i don't give a damn" view it might seem that way. just saying that you can't understand why someone would say that is not understanding what happened :heart:

If you just called me of all people a right wing conservative I retract my earlier statement and now apply that here. That is the most idiotic thing you have ever said.

As for staying human. I wouldn't lower myself to that level.:heart:

honestplayer

09-04-2005, 04:30 AM

As for staying human. I wouldn't lower myself to that level.

i give up - thousands dead. people left to die in hospitals, posssibly in the hundreds. you don't get it?

if you want to be self-righteous fine, but this isnt some game or computer thing, its people and their families. its class and race. its politics and the policies of ignorance.

reagan ignored AIDS for almost 2 full terms, 20k people died, and one the worst national health crisis' was borne - primarily because they were gays and blacks then. its a classic modern public policy case study on class and race. reagan's communication director pat buchanan was quoted (despite all the misery and deaths) as saying "AIDS is nature's revenge on gay men." even while professionals in his own administration said they're was a growing problem reagan was indifferent - he finally realized that only at the end of his term when his friend rock hudson died and changed his tune.

why am i saying this? because yes, the people left behind were poor - they were left to fend on their own when a lot of people knew they couldn't do well enough - and even when the stories trickled in about the desperation and deaths it took five days to get bush to notice? he supposedly flew over on the 2nd-day and didn't ask "are the people down there okay?" its the classic "reagan and AIDS" case-study above, the administration was indifferent and it took national media spotlighting on questioning of his leadership to force him to do something.

i give up trying to make you understand - like fishmonger - you should stick to computers because ignorance is bliss and in some ways, trying NOT to understand something can make someone feel their on their own little island away from reality. sort of like MMORPs i would guess.

DeadLamb

09-04-2005, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by honestplayer
i give up - thousands dead. people left to die in hospitals,

this is very much like the "I'll be there in 10min" issue for some place that is 5 miles away.. Sure, if you walked out to your car, hit no traffic and made the lights, no problem..

sep you need to close some windows in the house, put the dog outside, find your keys and even in speed mode for something pretty important it STILL takes 30+min or so..

4-5 day is not that big of a deal really. Not on a federal level level for an area that large being hit (muti-state issue). Sure, maybe they could have pre-staged and cut one day off it, maybe but the REAL problem is what the city of New Orleans did as a whole.. No one was left to die, some old people and maybe a few babies died but that's not really a shock in light of what happend to the city (I know that sound heartless to say). Ok, that sucks, but it's not like tons of 40 year old guys up and died due to no food for 3 days. It's a few days, not 3 weeks.

Local hospitals should of had x2 or x3 the level of batteries or generators funded and paid for on the state level or off local New Orleans city tax level at the least. 30% of the local police force should not have punked out and not shown up to work a day a so after the flood!! People had 3-4 days notice of the issue and while you might not own a car you can sure buy some water or fill up some cans with tap water for free. etc..

Now it sucks this happened but the local gov screwed this up way more then the federal level did. It will also be very interesting to see what happens in 4-6 months when people really notice that we just moved around 10's of thousands of very poor people to other areas and there is no reason for them to go back home to New Orleans. Once it's more PC for people to bitch about it being the clean up etc has started, I'm sure they will..

Sex Fruit

09-04-2005, 05:40 AM

http://katrinaninja.ytmnd.com/

Goddamn looters

honestplayer

09-04-2005, 06:36 AM

i think the washington post is beginning to hit on one thing correctly - FEMA's plan are based way to much on automobile evacs in cases of emergencies DL.

i think tyhe window is a bit too large though, the nat'l guard and others are now saying we we're just standing doing nothing for days because no one gave us the call.

there will be the usual congressional inquiries, finger pointing, etc. and hopefully some progress will be made.

life will go on.

honestplayer

09-04-2005, 06:44 AM

Goddamn looters

i agree on the non-neccessity ones like these. they should be shot.

what these asswipes didnt realizze is that by forcing what little was avail of enforcement into protection rather than recovery, alot of people probably died who could have instead been rescued. they deserve to be shot. they make me sick.

DeadLamb

09-04-2005, 06:53 AM

another thing that struck me as an "OMFG!!" moment was the bus drivers being told they need to go to another city and saying "Oh we have rules about how long we can drive"..

a bunch of nurses are working 24/7 on a hand pumps some where in a the city to keep people alive but god forbit a bus driver roll another hour or so.. Then again I guess if they fall asleep and crash it would be "OMFG why did they drive so long!?!?".. Catch 22..

In fact I think one bus did crash and kill someone.. That's some really bad luck for who ever that happend too..

one of those "once your time is up, it's up" things

honestplayer

09-04-2005, 08:44 AM

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld toured a medical facility at New Orleans' international airport on Sunday. He spoke and shook hands with military and rescue officials but walked right by a dozen refugees lying on stretchers just feet away from him, most of them extremely sick or handicapped. Sept 4 AP report

honestplayer

09-04-2005, 09:37 AM

on my "idiotic statement" - pretty grim FEMA forecast on what eventually happened:

From The Houston Chronicle - 12/1/01 - KEEPING ITS HEAD ABOVE WATER
New Orleans faces doomsday scenario
New Orleans is sinking.

And its main buffer from a hurricane, the protective Mississippi River delta, is quickly eroding away, leaving the historic city perilously close to disaster. So vulnerable, in fact, that earlier this year the Federal Emergency Management Agency ranked the potential damage to New Orleans as among the three likeliest, most castastrophic disasters facing this country.

The other two? A massive earthquake in San Francisco, and, almost prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York City.

The New Orleans hurricane scenario may be the deadliest of all.

In the face of an approaching storm, scientists say, the city's less-than-adequate evacuation routes would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet of water. Thousands of refugees could land in Houston. Economically, the toll would be shattering.

President Bush Aug 31 on Air Froce One flying over
http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0905/bush_grim.jpg

Bush views hurricane damage from above

As Air Force One carried Bush back from his Texas ranch, it flew over New Orleans at about 2,500 feet, and then descended to about 1,700 feet over Mississippi. Bush peered through a window at the scene below. Both of his fists were clenched, and his face was grim.

A spokesman later quoted him as saying, "It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground.

President Bush Sept 1

http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0905/bush_guitar.jpg

i hope someone in the white house communications office got at least an earful about releasing that last photo. it was just plain stupid and i am not blaming bush, just the idiot who thought it was going to be their promo photo shot that day.

enervate

09-04-2005, 04:34 PM

I've had the network news on in the background while working on the house this weekend, and there is a disturbing trend that I have been noticing. For some reason, everyone seems to think that it is somehow the federal goverment's job to respond to state disasters, and there is a lot of whining about the 'slow' federal response. In truth, FEMA has to be invited into state and local matters before they can legally participate (meaning that they bear no responsibility for anything), and the armed forces aren't even supposed to be involved at all.

The federal government has no authority to step into a situation like this without the permission of the state. The National Gaurdsmen of the states involved can be called into action immediately since one of their functions is to act as a militia, but for the U.S. Army to step in as they have done requires a transfer of jurisdiction and authority. To those paying close attention to the situation, you may have noticed that the feds assumed control around Friday night. On Saturday morning, there were non-stop helicopters and convoys moving in and out of the city.

In my opinion, the federal response to the situation has been incredibly efficient and well-coordinated. Before they took over, there seemed to be no strategy in the allocation of resources and the transportation of victims. People were living in their own filth, shooting at each other, looting stores, and setting fires. Now there is a strong military presence, people have been relocated, living areas are sanitized, and the situation is improving by the hour.

The local and state agencies have been spending all their energy passing the buck and making asses of themselves on national television instead of fixing their own mess. The whole reason that the levee's were only designed to withstand F3 hurricanes instead of F5 was because of the "cost/benefit analysis" performed by the agencies in charge of protecting New Orleans. In layman's terms, that means they decided that beefing up the levee system wasn't worth the money. Instead of realizing their own short-sightedness, they lambast the federal response and I grow more sickened.

honestplayer

09-05-2005, 09:52 AM

actually that is what FEMA was set up for:

On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA's continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates proactive mitigation activities, trains first responders, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration.

in the event that local and state govt literally being immobilzed or disabled, it's mission was expanded even more so.

and any time any national leader of any nation couldnt grasp a situation where +10k of his/her people are dying - isn't something to sneeze at either.

the blame will be spread around - but its not correct in simply blaming the local/state govt alone.

to avoid being partisan, even clinton never got all the money needed to reinforce those levees either.

so there will be enough blame to go all around - fed, state, local - dem and republican.