Terrorist are winning.... :(

[FreedomFGHTR]

Ok this is why I think they are winning....

because of something that happend in England the country which we rebelled against I now get my bags searched daily on the subways here in NYC... according to the consitution thats an unreasonable search because the cops don't have probable cause that I'm a terrorist. Because of that crap I missed my train my 3 feet and was late to work....

The terrorist want to see our constitutional rights erroded so we aren't the land of freedom anymore.... and guess what another right has gone down the drain.

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
I now get my bags searched daily on the subways here in NYC... according to the consitution thats an unreasonable search because the cops don't have probable cause that I'm a terrorist.

"Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly had announced the legally obvious—that New Yorkers are free to decline a search and "turn around and leave."

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
"Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly had announced the legally obvious—that New Yorkers are free to decline a search and "turn around and leave."

I saw a guy do that at the chambers st. station and he was arrrested on the spot....

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
I saw a guy do that at the chambers st. station and he was arrrested on the spot....

Well then you would have a nice wrongful arrest case on your hands.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
Well then you would have a nice wrongful arrest case on your hands.

hahaha lol you know nothing of the NYPD they can shoot an unarmed person 43 times and not have to worry about any reprecussions...

[DeadLamb]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
according to the consitution thats an unreasonable search because the cops don't have probable cause

eh yes and no.. The ACLU is going to be all over it of course being it is pretty BS.. but if I rem right the police can't do anything if you say no, other then just not let you on the subway.. plus they are going to say it's a random number search and not up to the officer. Ya know, to duck that whole profiling issue.

This just freaks people out being it's one more thing that sounds and is all big brother like.. Right up there with the lame DNA database and all the other gov stuff that has been passed post 9/11

If anything I think this just shows how totally out of control political correctness is in our county that the main worry is not to look like one is working off a profile.

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
hahaha lol you know nothing of the NYPD they can shoot an unarmed person 43 times and not have to worry about any reprecussions...


Yet they shove one plunger handle up a guys ass and it makes world news.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
Yet they shove one plunger handle up a guys ass and it makes world news.

And that correctional officer didn't get any punishment....

today I saw a NYC corrections dept bus which had their slogan which read.... "New York's Boldest"...

[DeadLamb]

Originally posted by Swagger
Yet they shove one plunger handle up a guys ass and it makes world news.

those case I can understand some out cry over..

but I'm soooo sick of hearing about someone not doing what he is told and getting shot and then the bullet count making it seem like it's was this huge deal.. Police don't carry little 6 shooters anymore.. Modern glock has 16-18 rounds in it and you drop them all in just a few seconds with next to zero effort.. Throw in a few cops and there ya go...

of course I think this case is the one in the stairs where the guy turns, has something in his hand, one cop falls backwards up and over a stair railing.. Others think he has been shot and BIG SHOCK open fire on the guy they think shot him.. Yeah that sucked but it was far from "Hi there, BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM x43"

pure accident..

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
And that correctional officer didn't get any punishment....


They were police and it was in a station house bathroom.........and they were all brought up on charges.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by DeadLamb
Others think he has been shot and BIG SHOCK open fire on the guy they think shot him.. Yeah that sucked but it was far from "Hi there, BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM x43"

pure accident..

an accident that cost somebody's life..... now imagine if that had been Hoss' life... you'd be serously pissed since Intel lost one of its finest.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
They were police...

New York's correctional officers are badged under NYPD....

[Swagger]

Originally posted by DeadLamb
but I'm soooo sick of hearing about someone not doing what he is told and getting shot and then the bullet count making it seem like it's was this huge deal.. Police don't carry little 6 shooters anymore.. Modern glock has 16-18 rounds in it and you drop them all in just a few seconds with next to zero effort.. Throw in a few cops and there ya go...



I miss the old days where shooting the guy in the leg was part of "an effort to restrain someone resisting arrest"

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
I miss the old days where shooting the guy in the leg was part of "an effort to restrain someone resisting arrest"

Shooting someone in the leg is different then putting 43 rounds in them and rendering the suspect DEAD....

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
Shooting someone in the leg is different then putting 43 rounds in them and rendering the suspect DEAD....

Hey with all the law suits and stuff........to prove to shooting inquest that you feared for your life or someone elses you empty your clip......so if you have 3 cops shoot at a guy....they all have to empty that clip. And you can thank politics for that.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
Hey with all the law suits and stuff........to prove to shooting inquest that you feared for your life or someone elses you empty your clip......so if you have 3 cops shoot at a guy....they all have to empty that clip. And you can thank politics for that.

Which proves that the "politics" in our country are flawed.

whatever happend to LIFE libery and the pursuit of happiness?

[DeadLamb]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
Shooting someone in the leg is different then putting 43 rounds in them and rendering the suspect DEAD....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo

BLAH.. again the number of times shot is what too many focus on but had the guy turned and gone "Yes officer, how can I help you??" as I would have done he would not be dead right now. Ah but noooo he runs, then reaches into a pocket, then a cop falls like he as been shot AND BIG shock the other cops shoot the guy.

It's the main problem with profiles in the first place.. Detailed one tend to work great.. vague ones likes "...he was a black guy, in jeans and a baseball hat" or "White guy, average age, average build wearing....... jeans and a baseball hat" that get cops into trouble.

all I know is when I get pulled over for a traffic stop, always keep my hands where the cop can see them, on the wheel. I mean the guy has a gun ya know..

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
Which proves that the "politics" in our country are flawed.

whatever happend to LIFE libery and the pursuit of happiness?


"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"


Its part of the Consent to being governed.....we give police a job and certain rites....certain things they are allowed to do that standard citizens arent....they are trained and they do their jobs....mistakes happen sometimes and its a shame....but in the big picture...they protect more of our freedoms and do a pretty damn good job. imo

[Swagger]

Originally posted by DeadLamb

all I know is when I get pulled over for a traffic stop, always keep my hands where the cop can see them, on the wheel. I mean the guy has a gun ya know..

Hell when they ask me for something thats in the glove compartment......I say "Its in the glove compartment....I'm just going to take my seat belt off so I can lean over and get it for you"

No reason to make the guy with the gun jumpy LOL

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"


Its part of the Consent to being governed.....we give police a job and certain rites....certain things they are allowed to do that standard citizens arent....they are trained and they do their jobs....mistakes happen sometimes and its a shame....but in the big picture...they protect more of our freedoms and do a pretty damn good job. imo

Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

I wouldnt call the nations police temporary.......well except on a time line on world history.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"


I honestly doubt the person who was killed consented to being killed....


but anyways this doesn't change the topic.

We are losing our rights and thats what the terrorist want. You can arugeall you want swagger but you aren't here in NYC having your right taken away. I hope that one day I-80 (near roseville since 80 ends here in NYC) has cops searching every car looking for terrorists,.... and when they find your collection of burnt cd's and charge you with a crime you'll understand this post...

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
I wouldnt call the nations police temporary.......well except on a time line on world history.

It's temporary because there are many targets besides subways and busses... hell a group of madmen could unleash hell in times sq if they did a north hollywood type gun shootout with the cops.... except add grenades... but seriously... their measures are only temporary.

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
I honestly doubt the person who was killed consented to being killed....


but anyways this doesn't change the topic.

We are losing our rights and thats what the terrorist want. You can arugeall you want swagger but you aren't here in NYC having your right taken away. I hope that one day I-80 (near roseville since 80 ends here in NYC) has cops searching every car looking for terrorists,.... and when they find your collection of burnt blockbuster dvd's and charge you with a crime you'll understand this post...

Well I dont keep anything incrimidating in my car LOL.....Its the same as when I go on an airplane.....I know that I could be searched before getting on a plane........if I have a problem with that......I dont take an airplane.

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
Well I dont keep anything incrimidating in my car LOL.....Its the same as when I go on an airplane.....I know that I could be searched before getting on a plane........if I have a problem with that......I dont take an airplane.

ok granted... but it starts with planes, then trains, next is automobiles, and finally they will conduct "random" home searchs.... if you give an inch they will take 3000 miles.

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
their measures are only temporary.

And those messures dont infringe on your liberties AT ALL. You can choose if you want to be searched............and if you get arrested for refusing.......then you can prolly be in on the classaction suit the ACLU will most likely be bringing aginst NY

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
ok granted... but it starts with planes, then trains, next is automobiles, and finally they will conduct "random" home searchs.... if you give an inch they will take 3000 miles.

Well actually the TSA/Homeland Security was supposta impliment that a few years ago......including Trains and Boats..............but any cop or highway patrol can search the inside of your vehical on a "random traffic stop

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
And those messures dont infringe on your liberties AT ALL. You can choose if you want to be searched............and if you get arrested for refusing.......then you can prolly be in on the classaction suit the ACLU will most likely be bringing aginst NY

Yeah but the cops will win on the basis that refusing is probable cause, because why would someone refuse right???? it's a catch-22... either way we are screwed and the bin laden motherfuckers win...

on a side note I could have sworn that the driver of a taxi I took last week was bin laden himself....

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
Yeah but the cops will win on the basis that refusing is probable cause, because why would someone refuse right???? it's a catch-22... either way we are screwed and the bin laden motherfuckers win...

on a side note I could have sworn that the driver of a taxi I took last week was bin laden himself....

Get yourself one of these

http://www.cafepress.com/dontconsent

[FreedomFGHTR]

Originally posted by Swagger
Get yourself one of these

http://www.cafepress.com/dontconsent

those shirts are ugly... i'd never get laid in NYC if I wore one of those... oh wait... nevermind even MyKuL could get laid in nyc so the shirt wouldn't matter.

[Swagger]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
i'd never get laid in NYC if I wore one of those

http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0705/26738619_F_tn.jpg

Im sure you would if you had tits like that

[honestplayer]

http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0705/6418183_F_tn.jpg

if we just stopped being pussies we should just like bomb the north, east, and west afghanistan with pig products, like tons of it without mercy, then bomb the shi*t outta the only escape - south afghanistan and kill them muthas wholesale. no more bin laden, no more al quida. voila!

i think it humane. :D

:ROFL:

[JerseyGirl]

Originally posted by FreedomFGHTR
ok granted... but it starts with planes, then trains, next is automobiles, and finally they will conduct "random" home searchs.... if you give an inch they will take 3000 miles.

They already have - it's called The Patriot Act.

[Poncho]

Originally posted by JerseyGirl
They already have - it's called The Patriot Act.

I'm sorry... but don't spout off about something that you obviously know little about. The patriot act does nothing of the sort.... most of what it does is change what the JUDGE needs to have presented to authorize a search. There is still judicial oversite.

[JerseyGirl]

Originally posted by Poncho
I'm sorry... but don't spout off about something that you obviously know little about. The patriot act does nothing of the sort.... most of what it does is change what the JUDGE needs to have presented to authorize a search. There is still judicial oversite.

Oh, and how long, on average, does that judicial process take? Weeks, days, hours, seconds?

[Avery Hawk]

just my .02

http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0705/ACLU.gif
http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0705/ACLU2.gif
http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0705/ACLU-usa.jpg

[Poncho]

Originally posted by JerseyGirl
Oh, and how long, on average, does that judicial process take? Weeks, days, hours, seconds?

As far as approval for searches.... the same time as before the patriot act. All the patriot act does, in regards to searches for the most part, is change what the judge needs to see to issue a search warrant. I'm curious... have you, or anyone else here who wants to bring it up, read the patriot act? Read the actual act... not a summary but the full text?

[Bunnyslayer]

My roomate subscribes to this bullcrap. She always refuses and gives attitude to cops when she gets pulled over about things. I don't care. Want to look in the trunk? Go right ahead. I have nothing to hide so why does it bother me? Maybe one should plan out their day so they are cutting it so close just in case something doesn't go to plan then a quick little search of your bag doesn't make you miss the train. I love placing balme on everyone else and whining about the freedoms and this and that. Then the little bogus references to people fighting an opressing government from 200 years ago applied to our country? Please. You wouldn't be spouting this crap if you didn't live in this country because they would ahng your ass for sedition. Just one of those "Rebel without a clue" arguments that the people with a brain can't win because the arguer doesn't wan't to discuss anything, just whine how evil the cops are and whatever. I have another friend who just got out of jail and whines like that saying how it's not fair that her life has been messed up. It's like "Well, you STOLE 120,000 dollars!" But that is typical humans for ya.

[honestplayer]

I'm sorry... but don't spout off about something that you obviously know little about. The patriot act does nothing of the sort.... most of what it does is change what the JUDGE needs to have presented to authorize a search. There is still judicial oversite.

aha, joiseygurl, i see u have now formally met poncho :D

don't worry, his bark is more often more greater then his bite :ROFL:

i think most americans do worry not only about greater intrusion by the government but by other means as well. if you are a law-abiding citizen and have a spotless record there is no right for anyone including the govt to treat you like a criminal and lower the constitutional standards to investigate your personal life or property.

its analogous to spyware, would you support the government forcing you to load spyware in your computer to track your internet use, esp. if you're a law abiding citizen?

[Moddy]

Originally posted by honestplayer
if you are a law-abiding citizen and have a spotless record there is no right for anyone including the govt to treat you like a criminal and lower the constitutional standards to investigate your personal life or property.

but if you dont' have anything to hide, why would you care if they investigate you?

That arguement sucks.

[Moddy]

Ahh, here is some info that some may find useful:

http://www.flexyourrights.org/subway/

[honestplayer]

but if you dont' have anything to hide, why would you care if they investigate you?

so ur saying the govt has the right to look at someone's sex life? magazine subscriptions? family matters? internet surfing? worklife? etc. which would come out to light under intrusion of someone's life and property?

saying that one doesnt mind having the govt intrude on one's personal life is akin to saying "i love spyware on my computer" in some aspects.

more importantly, the current regime is VERY PARTISAN. they would sell out CIA agents and be traitors for the sake of one party rule. increasing govt supervision of its citizenry and attacking legal dissent against opposition of their one party rule is way too close to Big Brother.

[honestplayer]

Ahh, here is some info that some may find useful:

thats pretty cool.

[Moddy]

Originally posted by honestplayer
so ur saying the govt has the right to look at someone's sex life? magazine subscriptions? family matters? internet surfing? worklife? etc. which would come out to light under intrusion of someone's life and property?

saying that one doesnt mind having the govt intrude on one's personal life is akin to saying "i love spyware on my computer" in some aspects.

more importantly, the current regime is VERY PARTISAN. they would sell out CIA agents and be traitors for the sake of one party rule. increasing govt supervision of its citizenry and attacking legal dissent against opposition of their one party rule is way too close to Big Brother. No.

What I'm saying is that in light of recent events, if I was using a public service (BART, A/C Transit, Light Rail, etc...) and they are doing random searches - I"m completely good with that. It's (IMO) for the greater good of the public and our nation as a whole. We all know that the cops won't find a bomb in the bags they search - but the terrorists see that our forces are taking steps to thwart their destructive efforts, and may be at very least, "discouraged" to make a run at our public transportation.

That being said, I am opposed to phone tapping, video monitoring, looking at someones mail, etc.... There is no benefit to that, and like you say, that is too close to Big Brother.

[honestplayer]

actually i kinda agree. i remember that driving on the road is not a right (said over and over in drivers ed courses). i would concur using public transportation is not a right as well, its a privilege and not exactly guaranteed as a right constitutionally anyways.

so if you didnt like being searched going on a train bart etc. you have your right and choice to just walk, bike, or take your car - and not be searched.

i dont like the idea of being forced into an unreasonable search where your not given a choice - esp. if you havent done anything suspicious or illegal.

[Gremlin]

Hmm I wonder how many times I am going to be searched when I go to Texas next month.

[Moddy]

Originally posted by Gremlin
Hmm I wonder how many times I am going to be searched when I go to Texas next month. Probably a lot dude. You should make sure that you hide the heroin VERY well this time.

[Bunnyslayer]

Originally posted by honestplayer
actually i kinda agree.

So why were you arguing in the 1st place?

As for the PATRIOT Act there, is some serious bs in that thing. They can shut down your ability to be a day trader for offense that had nothing to do with day trading. I know of that through a friend's experiences.

[honestplayer]

So why were you arguing in the 1st place?

i just wanted more cowbell i guess? :P

:ROFL:

[JerseyGirl]

Originally posted by Poncho
As far as approval for searches.... the same time as before the patriot act. All the patriot act does, in regards to searches for the most part, is change what the judge needs to see to issue a search warrant. I'm curious... have you, or anyone else here who wants to bring it up, read the patriot act? Read the actual act... not a summary but the full text?

The reason I asked that question above regarding the judicial overview was because I know that the Patriot Act allows for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant. And yes, a judge has to authorize that as well.

The only reason I even brought it up was because a friend of mine had his townhouse turned upside down at 3am because John Q. Public reported him for suspicious behavior. When he asked the field agents for their search warrant, they didn't have one. My friend was eventually cleared and let go the next day.

I've got nothing to hide but I certainly wouldn't want field agents busting into my house at 3am and trashing the place because someone thought I was acting suspiciously. But that's just me.

[Poncho]

Originally posted by JerseyGirl
The reason I asked that question above regarding the judicial overview was because I know that the Patriot Act allows for delaying notice of the execution of a warrant. And yes, a judge has to authorize that as well.

Yea... the famous "Sneak and Peak," can't recall what the section number that is. Anyway... yea they can, with a judges approval, come into your home while you are not present, look around, and not tell you. Personally...this makes sense. Why tip your hat if you don't have to.

Originally posted by JerseyGirl
The only reason I even brought it up was because a friend of mine had his townhouse turned upside down at 3am because John Q. Public reported him for suspicious behavior. When he asked the field agents for their search warrant, they didn't have one. My friend was eventually cleared and let go the next day.


While not compleatly illegal, as far as actionable, had anything been turned up in that search it could not have been used in trial. There is NOTHING in the patriot act that gives cops free reign to come into your home whenever they chose without getting a judges approval. Despite how much the lib....the same ones who supported this act... want you to believe. :rolleyes: Fucking lame....

Also...on a side note, most parts of the patriot act have already gone away. A lot of the sections had sunset clauses... much like the federal assault weapons ban. It's gone... and so is most of the patriot act.

[JerseyGirl]

Originally posted by Poncho
Yea... the famous "Sneak and Peak," can't recall what the section number that is.

213 - the only reason I remember it is because of my friend. (The only other section I remember pretty graphically is 215).

I have read the Patriot Act (the text and not a summary - I don't trust summaries) but admit to doing so only after my friend's situation.

[Bunnyslayer]

Originally posted by Gremlin
Hmm I wonder how many times I am going to be searched when I go to Texas next month.

Just utter the phrase:

No estoy un mulo. No tengo drogas en mi culo. No molestar mi culo."

I am sure they will leave you alone....