Lower cost with intel now?

[Chronoglass]

dear lord, when did this happen?
a 2.2ghz AMD for $315
and
an intel p4 3ghz for $269?!

I'm kind of annoyed by this, heh.. it might even force me to build my next system with an inhell board

[xwred1]

Check the price for a 2ghz Opteron.

[Chronoglass]

even more

usually i look at AMD cause it's near the same bang for a bit less buck

but something seems very amiss right now

[xenophile]

Originally posted by ihateyoudavid
even more

usually i look at AMD cause it's near the same bang for a bit less buck

but something seems very amiss right now

well put.

[Chronoglass]

can I start blaming the intel whores?

[xwred1]

Amd hasn't made any money in 6 or 7 quarters now.

Seems like overall the cpu arms race has cooled... so both sides are comfortable sitting where they are at and lowering prices as slowly as possible.

[enervate]

Does this mean that the AMD camp can use the "get what you pay for" line now? :D

[Chronoglass]

seems more like amd has either jacked their prices up *doubt it*
or intel has jacked theirs down *weirdness*

[DeadLamb]

Originally posted by ihateyoudavid
can I start blaming the intel whores?

blah.. not are fault we all already have at least 3.0's p4s and you don't :) heh

Come on... step over to the dark side!!

[Chronoglass]

heh.. looking at prices i'm seriously pondering it...

2 ghz processor

3 ghz processor... less... with less insane cooling required.. hrm


been wanting to try something different for a while now

been toying with the idea of water cooling
also been toying with the idea of throwing together a dual processor system

perhaps mixing the two idears

I have a full dragon case waiting for some work

[xwred1]

You also get HT with the P4. That is a poor man's smp right there.

And then if you run real SMP on top of that, it is even dreamier.

[xenophile]

my grandma stitches faster than that stupid thing hyper threads

it is cheap though.
damn you intel

[Bullfrog]

Originally posted by ihateyoudavid
heh.. looking at prices i'm seriously pondering it...

2 ghz processor

3 ghz processor... less... with less insane cooling required.. hrm


Which 2ghz AMD processor are you talking about? AthlonXP / A64 / FX? There is a WORLD of difference in performance, price and capability between those chips.

To be honest the cooling differences with the current generation of CPU's between Intel and AMD mostly show with the OEM coolers. Watch the core temps on a P4 3ghz / Athlon 3200+ with OEM coolers and you won't find much difference in operating temps. The A64 / FX / Opteron runs at even lower temps with OEM coolers. Put on a mild upgraded cooler and the lower temps you run at are simply amazing.

If you believe the measure of a chip is the mzh rating then Intel's marketing has fool'd you.


been wanting to try something different for a while now

been toying with the idea of water cooling
also been toying with the idea of throwing together a dual processor system


If you want to try something different then I would suggest looking at A64 / FX / Opteron. If you want to see what I am talking about you can play around on my Opteron rig @ FLG7. Talk with me @ the lan and I will tell you all you want to know about this stuff.

If you are going to try out SMP then make sure you REALLY do your homework. Most guys who try SMP for the first time really under estimate how much it costs to setup a good rig. SMP boards are much more expensive, memory is more picky, power requirements are different then desktop. Plus the fact that you have to buy 2 processors AND the board sizes limit the types of cases you can use. The list goes on...for some good information goto 2cpu.com

Also, if you think you are going to get 'huge' performance increases for gaming...you won't. Unless you do things that specifically use SMP then I think you will be disappointed with what you get. It's honestly just a bragging thing to say you have a SMP rig for gaming. BUT...if you do things that can use SMP it is VERY cool to have. I still have 3 dual rigs @ home. :D

[fishmonger]

Originally posted by Bullfrog
If you believe the measure of a chip is the mzh rating then Intel's marketing has fool'd you.

No yuo!

3.0GHz >>> 2.2GHz. The numbers don't lie. It's black and white math.

Originally posted by Bullfrog
If you want to try something different then I would suggest looking at A64 / FX / Opteron.

What's different about it? It's running 32-bit code, just like every uP on the desktop right now (blahblah G5 blahblah linux blahblah). The integrated memory controller is nifty, sure, but it has no user-visible benefits.

There's just not much to sell there once you get past the 64-bit thing.

[Chronoglass]

yeah, price wise I know what I'm looking at.. I figure the water system alone to be around 500 bucks

I've got a nice large chieftech dragon case.. so room isn't much of a problem

the rest.. yeah, I was noticing that as well.. it's going to be a 1 part a month project.. heh heh (and that's if I go with xeon chips that go for less than the opertrons

as for which chip was talkin aboot
XP3200+ Barton 400FSB - $315.99 listed as 2.2ghz
P4 3.06GHz 533FSB HT* - $269.99

both are listed as having a 512 cache
ht I could gives a damn about, just seems like another name for *lookie, we're fast* heh

I'd love to get an athlon xp of fx setup goin.. or even opertron. Would actually prefer it, but those just go further up from the xp, and sadly right out of my reach, (especially because I love amd for the reason that they were always within my reach pricewise)

[fishmonger]

Originally posted by ihateyoudavid
I've got a nice large chieftech dragon case.. so room isn't much of a problem

It will not fit an EATX motherboard (most dual mobos). They're 12x13, and too deep to fit in your case. They also take a different PSU.

As for the P4 - look at the 3.0GHz 800FSB chips. A bit more, but you can put it in an 865 platform cheap and get great performance.

[Chronoglass]

well that shoots that idear down for now

cases are generally the cheapest part tho

[Chronoglass]

it's just a mid, I honestly hadn't even bothered looking too closely at it, just dragged it home, heh heh

the person who I swiped it from said it was a full and I just took it for granted it was, glad you pointed that out or I wouldn't have even looked until I had the mobo and was wonderin why the fucker didnt fit, ha ha ha

[xwred1]

There's just not much to sell there once you get past the 64-bit thing.

I've got a 1.4ghz Athlon64 sitting in my closet right now... its going to get some 100% 64-bit Linux love once I get a motherboard for it. No lame waiting for a Windows XP beta just so I can run a pile 32-bit apps in long mode.

Don't you know what the 64-bit means? More registers! Memory page permission bits! 48-bit virtual memory omg! It is an earth shattering revolution being ushered in by AMD.

Its too bad Intel refuses to be innovative like AMD and would rather sit at 32-bit instead of slap another colostomy bag on x86.


ht I could gives a damn about, just seems like another name for *lookie, we're fast* heh

If you were interested in smp I don't see why ht wouldn't be interesting. You know what it does, right?

[Bullfrog]

Originally posted by fishmonger
No yuo!

3.0GHz >>> 2.2GHz. The numbers don't lie. It's black and white math.

What's different about it? It's running 32-bit code, just like every uP on the desktop right now (blahblah G5 blahblah linux blahblah). The integrated memory controller is nifty, sure, but it has no user-visible benefits.

There's just not much to sell there once you get past the 64-bit thing.

You funny! I go laugh now...:ROFL: So where can I get one of those P4 EE toaster ovens? :heart:

[Chronoglass]

Originally posted by xwred1

If you were interested in smp I don't see why ht wouldn't be interesting. You know what it does, right?

quite honestly, no, I'm not entirely sure

I'm definetly a newbie when it comes to multi processors and the like, which is why I want to do it.. to become a bit less of one, heh heh

[xwred1]

You funny! I go laugh now... So where can I get one of those P4 EE toaster ovens?

Seems concise to me... what improvements are we missing out on? Unless you run 64-bit, it is just another fast x86 processor in the evolution of fast x86 processors.

Were you going to tell David all about the advantages of 64-bit at the next flg? What does your box run, 64-bit Win2k3?

[xwred1]

Originally posted by ihateyoudavid
quite honestly, no, I'm not entirely sure

I'm definetly a newbie when it comes to multi processors and the like, which is why I want to do it.. to become a bit less of one, heh heh

In HT cpus, 2 logical processors are shown to the OS. So if you installed, say, Winxp on one, it would tell you it was running on an smp box. Both of the logical processors are just a moving divide between the physical resources in the chip.

The advantage is that the chip can do two things at once (run two threads at once). So whereas on a non-HT P4, resources would be free but unusable because the chip is busy doing something else, those free resources will be available for the second logical processor to use.

So it is like a poor man's smp.

[fishmonger]

Originally posted by Bullfrog
So where can I get one of those P4 EE toaster ovens? :heart:

You can pull it out of here: www.goatse.cx

Ha!

:heart:

[xwred1]

The goggles! They do nothing!

[Hoss]

Originally posted by xwred1
its going to get some 100% 64-bit Linux love once I get a motherboard for it. Don't you know what the 64-bit means? More registers! Memory page permission bits! 48-bit virtual memory omg!

Yea...but...what are you going to do with it? It sure is facinating that you can stuff like 128 Gig of memory in to it, but...again...what CAN you do with it? Short of a large business usage model, I don't see how anyone can use 64 bit anything.

Originally posted by Bullfrog
So where can I get one of those P4 EE toaster ovens?


What do you mean toaster oven? Aren't all CPUs supposed to run at 150F? ;) I was doing a bunch of picture coversions the other night on my King's pics and the fucker got up to 177F. Hot as hell, but I'm starting to see the speed benefits, as in mine is WAY faster than Poncho's now. But no really, any CPU with 2 fucking megs of cache is pretty pimp. That thing expands RAR files like a raped ape.

[Chronoglass]

Originally posted by xwred1
In HT cpus, 2 logical processors are shown to the OS. So if you installed, say, Winxp on one, it would tell you it was running on an smp box. Both of the logical processors are just a moving divide between the physical resources in the chip.

The advantage is that the chip can do two things at once (run two threads at once). So whereas on a non-HT P4, resources would be free but unusable because the chip is busy doing something else, those free resources will be available for the second logical processor to use.

So it is like a poor man's smp.

ok, I see what your sayin, question is wether ir actually does that, or that's just the intended purpose

I've already seen one person saying it doesn't do a very good job of it, but I know that can be relative, and i'm sure that the intel site will say it does an exellent job but relatively speaking, is there a large difference between actual smp and ht?

[Chronoglass]

Originally posted by Bullfrog

If you want to try something different then I would suggest looking at A64 / FX / Opteron. If you want to see what I am talking about you can play around on my Opteron rig @ FLG7. Talk with me @ the lan and I will tell you all you want to know about this stuff.


and I'll definetly be down for that :)

[Hoss]

Real world difference for me show up in load times of games, defrags WAY faster, photoshop hauls ass like 2X the speed and theres no lag when you're copying a bunch of shit and surfing the web or doing something else. It's just like a little extra boost.

[antishatter]

anywhoo if ur into ocing dont get a barton because all the new 1s r locked so u cant oc em im just glad i got mine new casue the bartons after week 39 are locked cause they want u to buy a 64 bit proceesor http://www.dvhardware.net/article.php?sid=2098

[fishmonger]

Originally posted by antishatter
anywhoo if ur into ocing dont get a barton because all the new 1s r locked so u cant oc em im just glad i got mine new casue the bartons after week 39 are locked cause they want u to buy a 64 bit proceesor http://www.dvhardware.net/article.php?sid=2098

I'm going to get torman to fuck you in the ass if you don't start speaking English. Seriously, it takes work to translate the shit you spewed from your keyboard.

http://www.kirkendall.us/smartass/drqshadow-english.jpg

[VitaMan]

Originally posted by antishatter
1s r locked so u cant oc em im just glad i got mine

What Fishmonger said. It is probably more work to appear so stupid!

[VitaMan]

Originally posted by ihateyoudavid
been wanting to try something different for a while now

Intel? AMD? Bah...

Maybe if I'm in a good mood, I'll let you try out my ultra-top-secret prototype machine:

7.3 GHz quad-VIA c5 "stacked" CPU
PCI-XX2
Dual 512 meg 2nd generation BitBoys Oy vidcards
4 GB MRAM
BluRay DVD burner
40" widescreen 3D "sensurround" OLED display
802.11m (gigabit wireless)

Of course, you'd have to sign an NDA...

:D

[Chronoglass]

ha ha ha

and I suppose if that computer were at the lan, it would decimate everyone with spears from it's eyes and fireballs from it's arse aye?

[xwred1]

Yea...but...what are you going to do with it? It sure is facinating that you can stuff like 128 Gig of memory in to it, but...again...what CAN you do with it? Short of a large business usage model, I don't see how anyone can use 64 bit anything.

The extra registers are sexy and the page permission is nice... but past that it won't do anything for 95% of the people who buy them.

When I get serious and replace my main box with an amd64 one though... I think I'm going to try and make a huge ramdrive and drop a few games in there.


ok, I see what your sayin, question is wether ir actually does that, or that's just the intended purpose

I've already seen one person saying it doesn't do a very good job of it, but I know that can be relative, and i'm sure that the intel site will say it does an exellent job but relatively speaking, is there a large difference between actual smp and ht?

It does do it. Whether or not it is very good depends on what you do with your computer... if you only use one program at a time and none of them are multithreaded, then you won't get much benefit at all. If you let your computer grind on multiple heavy tasks or use multithreaded apps like Photoshop, you'll get a boost like Hoss says.

It is still not as good as real smp - but hey, you pretty much get it free with a single chip and then you could still run smp on top of that also.

[Chronoglass]

yeah, generally speaking I prefer being able to do multiple things at once... scanning the things I regularly scan takes about 3 mins.. during that 3 mins i'm either staring at the screen, getting coffee or using a different computer.. heh

same with burning dvds and such, i only do em at night, which means 1 per night if i remember, not a huge fan of that

[fishmonger]

Originally posted by xwred1
When I get serious and replace my main box with an amd64 one though... I think I'm going to try and make a huge ramdrive and drop a few games in there.

I did that once (I have a box with 4GB of RAM, 2GB went to Windows, 2GB to Ramdrive). It didn't have much of an effect at all past level load times. I think this will be very video-card dependent, however; the more onboard memory your card has, the less it'll matter, as it can cache all of the textures and stuff.

[Bullfrog]

Originally posted by antishatter
anywhoo if ur into ocing dont get a barton because all the new 1s r locked so u cant oc em im just glad i got mine new casue the bartons after week 39 are locked cause they want u to buy a 64 bit proceesor http://www.dvhardware.net/article.php?sid=2098

You are SO wrong it's not even funny. We could care-less what you try doing to an AthlonXP. Plus the simple fact that the way the chips are package make it almost impossible to lock it.

I reward you with 500 stupid points, only 500 more to go before you level-up!

[xwred1]

Level-loads is all I expected to gain. Thats why people all go gung-ho about striping their drives.

How were the level load times though? Not as impressive as you'd expect?

[fishmonger]

Originally posted by xwred1
How were the level load times though? Not as impressive as you'd expect?

Hell, probably more impressive than I expected. SS2 would pop up levels nearly instantaneously.

[BreadMan]

XP3200 != (does not equal for you non-coders) P4 3.06 ghz
XP3200 == P4 3.2 ghz

XP3200 400 fsb = $299 (going by lowest listed on pricewatch)
P4 3.2 ghz 800 fsb = $380

You're comparing apples and oranges. If you match the numbers, AMD is always listed at least $60-80 lower than the matching intel chip.

[BreadMan]

doh, I totally missed that this was three pages. That should teach me to use the "view all unread posts" thingy. Uh, yeah ignore the above.

Edit: 'Course after reading the pages I missed no one else said anything to this effect, so I guess it still stands.

[GotNoRice]

Originally posted by BreadMan
[B]XP3200 != (does not equal for you non-coders) P4 3.06 ghz
XP3200 == P4 3.2 ghz

Marketing

The ratings system back in the 1800+ days was fairly conservative, but in the later chips, the increase in rating has corresponded less and less with the real performance of the chip. Real world scenarios where the high end XP’s match the performance of the High end P4’s are few and far between. That is, of course, why we have the Opteron, Athlon64, etc.

[xwred1]

XP3200 == P4 3.2 ghz

According to AMD, AthlonXP 3200+ != P4 3.2ghz.

They say AthlonXP 3200+ == 3.2ghz Thunderbird.

[BreadMan]

Aw crap! My cover's been blown, they found out I'm not really a nerd!

<door slam...receding footsteps...car door...screeeeech vroooooom!>

:D :D :D


No seriously, I hardly ever keep up on hardware stuff. I don't know why I bothered posting in this forum at all, I usually never read it. Like I said, that "view all unread" thing just gets me in trouble :P