Let's pay for your health care.

[Bunnyslayer]

Just another reason I am glad I don't live in SF.
So basically if you work (pay taxes) or own a buisiness you must pay for those who don't have health insurance. And this is acceptable? Hell if that deal ever came here, I would drop my insuance and save a butt load of money. Bunch of bs here.

S.F. unveils universal health care plan
By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer Tue Jun 20, 11:41 PM ET


SAN FRANCISCO - The city would offer health care to any adult resident, regardless of immigration or employment status, under a plan announced Tuesday.
The plan, which still needs be approved by the city's Board of Supervisors, is aimed at 82,000 uninsured residents who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, said Mayor Gavin Newsom. San Francisco already provides universal health care for children.
"Rather than lamenting about the fact that we live in a country with 45.8 million Americans that don't have health insurance ... San Francisco is doing something about it," Newsom said. "San Francisco is moving forward to fulfill its moral obligation."
Newsom stressed that the so-called Health Access Plan was not meant to take the place of private health insurance, but rather provide a way to consistently treat people without insurance so they don't end up seeking medical care in hospital emergency rooms.
Unlike health insurance, for example, the city's plan would not cover the cost of any medical services its participants seek outside San Francisco, and it would not be open to people who work, but do not live, in the city.
It would provide comprehensive preventive and catastrophic health care, covering everything from checkups, prescription drugs and X-rays to ambulance rides, blood tests and surgeries.
The city estimates the plan would cost $200 million a year, an expense that would be borne by taxpayers, businesses that don't already insure all their workers, and participants themselves.
Residents would pay both monthly fees and service co-payments on a sliding scale depending on income. A person with annual earnings at the federal poverty line would pay $3 per month, while someone who makes between $19,600 and $40,000 — or up to 400 percent above the poverty line — would pay an average of $35 per month.
Details of how the employer contribution would work were scheduled to be presented Wednesday to the Board of Supervisors. Approval is expected, though the details could change.
The most recent version, sponsored by Supervisor Tom Ammiano, would require every business with more than 20 employees to pay $1.60 an hour into the system for all employees not already covered by a health plan, no matter how few hours they work.
Laurie Thomas, owner of three restaurants in San Francisco, said that she already contributes to health insurance for her employees who work more than 28 hours a week, but that the hourly mandate Ammiano is proposing would put her out of business.

[Moddy]

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WTH?

[Poncho]

Total bullshit... this state is FUCKED. God I want to move SOOOOOOOO bad. An extra 1.60 per hour per employee is going to kill business in the bay area.... not that it'll matter since all the people who lose their jobs when the business' leave will still be covered. Lame.

[BIGKahuna]

San Fransisco is a world all to its own. I am glad I do not live there.

I remember watching one of the City Counsel members say on National TV that the US does not need an Army at all. They should immediately disband and leave the police to protect the country............ Even Allan Combs came unglued at that suggestion.

If our Govt' quit spending all this money on Pork we just might have a way to ease the burden of some.

[Bunnyslayer]

WTH?:secret:

[Bunnyslayer]

If our Govt' quit spending all this money on Pork we just might have a way to ease the burden of some.

Soylent Green

[Poncho]

You know... sometimes you have to thin the herd a bit. And that's what NON free health care helps. It's survival of the fittest.... if you are dirt poor, don't get sick.... and if you do, better hope your body can fix itself. Really... people abuse health care as it is now. I get sick and tired of people going to the doctor cause they have a cold or the flu. Suck it up and deal with it.... I don't need to pay for your shit. Fucking bullshit....

[Bunnyslayer]

That's why I propose Soylent Green. That took care of rioting and hunger. I figure it would fit just fine in this instance. If you can't cut back on your crack to buy health coverage then you are a Wafer.

http://www.fusionlangaming.net/0606/Soylent green 1.jpg

[honestplayer]

hey its SF! i think they can take care of their own business. its not like any company is going to pack its bag over this anyways, what with one of the highest concentrations of a workforce with post graduate degrees in the world. its a niche region and always doing stuff like this.

[Poncho]

hey its SF! i think they can take care of their own business. its not like any company is going to pack its bag over this anyways, what with one of the highest concentrations of a workforce with post graduate degrees in the world. its a niche region and always doing stuff like this.

Well... SF shit has a way of carrying over to the rest of this god awful state. Also, you're mistaken if you don't think that an extra $1.60 per hour that the business has to pay won't affect anything. That will either translate to higher costs of goods, or layoffs of the very people that SF supposedly cares about. :rolleyes: That's a HUGE increase.... and not one that employers will eat.

[xwred1]

This is just big government bailing out the HMOs that lose tons of money to people who can't afford it but got fixed up anyway.

[honestplayer]

Well... SF shit has a way of carrying over to the rest of this god awful state. Also, you're mistaken if you don't think that an extra $1.60 per hour that the business has to pay won't affect anything. That will either translate to higher costs of goods, or layoffs of the very people that SF supposedly cares about. That's a HUGE increase.... and not one that employers will eat.

i'd say that awful same sex marriage thing didn't go over too well actually. :D

[Poncho]

i'd say that awful same sex marriage thing didn't go over too well actually. :D


Jesus... what the hell does that have to do with anything? Care to stick to the subject? Oh... that's right, you can't. :roll: Now I remember why I used to have you on ignore.

[honestplayer]

Well... SF shit has a way of carrying over to the rest of this god awful state.

universal healthcare is common worldwide in almost every developed nation (except the US)

[Bunnyslayer]

universal healthcare is common worldwide in almost every developed nation (except the US)

So move then.

Here is a list of countries with Unoversal health Care:

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Cuba
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Israel
Japan
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Portgual
Seychelles (don't ask me)
South Africa
Spain
Sweden
Taiwan
United Kingdom (Britain)

Impressive list, but not exactly "almost every developed nation"tm

[Poncho]

universal healthcare is common worldwide in almost every developed nation (except the US)


Yea, and look how good their systems are. While "universal healthcare" sounds like a great idea... there is no money in it and from that no money for R&D. It's sad... but true that if you want to continue advancing medical research there has to be a profit in it.... take away that profit what's the reason for doing it? Don't even say greater good cause that is not the way the world is ran.

[Bunnyslayer]

Yea, and look how good their systems are. While "universal healthcare" sounds like a great idea... there is no money in it and from that no money for R&D. It's sad... but true that if you want to continue advancing medical research there has to be a profit in it....

Unless of course it's stem cells then it is just evil and against Jehesus....;)

[Poncho]

Unless of course it's stem cells then it is just evil and against Jehesus....;)


Don't disagree with you there.... but I do see the other side of it a bit. Kinda like gay marriage... I don't think it's a big deal, but as long as a MAJORITY in this country doesn't want it... it shouldn't be allowed. Times will change and people will generally become more accepting of these types of issues that go against their core beliefs.

[Bunnyslayer]

Just wanted to throw that out there before we got too full of ourselves. South Korea and Britain have very good medical R&D right now. Of course South Korea doesn't have universal health care and therefore is not a developed nation. Because 1+1=9.3725:twitchy:

[Poncho]

Just wanted to throw that out there before we got too full of ourselves. South Korea and Britain have very good medical R&D right now. Of course South Korea doesn't have universal health care and therefore is not a developed nation. Because 1+1=9.3725:twitchy:


Yea, but GB also taxes their citizens up the ass.

This is for all the bed wetters out there....

Until you are ALL comfortable paying 50% in taxes... then you need to let shit like universal healthcare go. It's just NOT good for our economy period. Beyond that.... universal healthcare in most of those countries sucks. There is a reason why we have some of the best medical centers in the world and why many people come here for treatment. When's the last time you heard about somebody going to Canada for Cancer treatments? Yea... I can't recall either.

[Bunnyslayer]

I'm not arguing with you at all. Honest player is over there big guy :D

[Poncho]

I'm not arguing with you at all. Honest player is over there big guy :D


That last part wasn't directed at you.... it was meant for everybody. Should have been a bit clearer.

Fixed it... hope it makes sense now. :D

[Bunnyslayer]

That last part wasn't directed at you.... it was meant for everybody. Should have been a bit clearer.

Fixed it... hope it makes sense now. :D

No you suck and are.... a dummie head.:cb:

(now it's a true FLG discussion when the insults start flying)

[DeadLamb]

I just wish health care costs were undercontrol more.. They shaft the living crap out of a person who looks to buy his or her own health care, never mind if you have a family too.

It get so little press being so many have health care as part of a big company package so in classic "not my problem" they don't care being it seem not to be coming out of their own pocket.. Even if in some case those cost are still dragging down the company, GM anyone?

of course there is not an easy fix and it cost a whole lot of "me" dropping a few hundred a month and never needed to go to the doctor to pay for one person like my parent who had a 125k+ transplant and a few k a month in pills for costs. Then again she is on federal gov coverage, the gold standard of health care so in a way, your taxs are paying for it.

[Boss99]

I'm not sure if I understand this issue.

If you have an employer with benefits, it obviously doesn't apply to you (other than paying for it through taxes). If you can't afford it, you get it through medicaid and other such state programs, no?

[Defiant One]

When's the last time you heard about somebody going to Canada for Cancer treatments? Yea... I can't recall either.

You must not have heard about the tour-buses (and several thousand private citizens) that make regular trips up there so that people can buy affordable medications, cancer-related or not...

[BIGKahuna]

You must not have heard about the tour-buses (and several thousand private citizens) that make regular trips up there so that people can buy affordable medications, cancer-related or not...

You are correct sir medication is more affordable in Canada and Mexico. Both those countries have laws that limit the price of medication. The pharmaceutical companies are raking us over the coals.

There is no easy solution for health care but at the same time when was the last time you could not go into a hospital here in the US and get some kind of care. I have all kinds of degenerate friends that manage just fine.

Now on to the point of medication I did not mind in the past the cost of medication being as traditionally a lot of money was spent on R&D. In the last bunch of of years advertisement has surpassed R&D at many pharmaceuticals.
I do not understand why Viagra needs to advertise on television, trust me if I can not get my pee pee to stand up I will go to my doctor and ask for his advice not get my medication based on a half time commercial.

The one thing I agree with Britain on when it comes to Medicine is not allowing all this advertising on public air waves of medication. Let the medicine speak for itself. When I am sick I will use what works.

[DeadLamb]

If you can't afford it, you get it through medicaid and other such state programs, no?

most get limbo'd..
you can't just go "Oh I don't want to pay for heath care, I will go file for medicaid". You have to be broke or at least with in a set range on a scale of income.

So you end up with say a family man with wife and 3 kids and the guy makes money on his own some how and he is 43 years old.. He is looking at $576.00 a month with a $50 copay at an HMO like Kaiser (based off their web site quote). Would be even higher if he went with a none HMO.. So that is close to 7k a year off the top..

So clearly one could see how he could make enough to live ok but still not have 7k for the health care costs. It's the reason why a lot of wives go out and get stuck with job they want to leave but can't being they want health care for the kids..

but I don't think forcing a city wide health care issues is all that fair.. Those cost have to be made up some where and everything else will just go up. Up in a city that already has a higher costs for everything. NOT the role of local gov to do BS like that IMO..

[honestplayer]

I'm not arguing with you at all. Honest player is over there big guy

heh, i need to read that other thread and get fit and lose some weight :D

[FAngel]

Yea, but GB also taxes their citizens up the ass.
Until you are ALL comfortable paying 50% in taxes...
Shit, I looked at my taxes from last year and it's getting closer to 50% every year......

[BIGKahuna]

50%!! damn you need to find some tax shelters. With three kids a 401K this loophole that loophole I sit just above 12%. All above board.

[ChoMomma]

50%!! damn you need to find some tax shelters. With three kids a 401K this loophole that loophole I sit just above 12%. All above board.


OKay so we had the health post/thread I guess it's time for the "Taxes and how not to pay that much" post/thread.

[Poncho]

Shit, I looked at my taxes from last year and it's getting closer to 50% every year......


You must be getting close to the "you've done well in life, time for you to start paying for the drags of society" bracket. LOL...

[xwred1]

There are things in healthcare that profit fails to drive properly. Like development of medecines that help kids with some terminal diseases. On TV they've talked about drugs that were good treatments for some things that were terminated because making them just plain wasn't profitable.

There's a conflict of interest for pharmaceutical companies to find cures for things too. Its more profitable to keep someone on a cocktail of treatments for life than to make a cure. Or if you do make a cure, make it outrageously expensive because if people don't but it they will die. Like selling $10k bottles of water out in the desert.

Socialized medicine might not be the answer, but you can argue alot of ways that some of this stuff is closer to infrastructure (roads, police, etc) than free enterprise. There's got to be some combination of government stimulation that'll get the things that are good for people, but unprofitable, done.