Wireless networking - what is best available?

[VitaMan]

Again - building new house, want/need to plan networking needs.

I plan to run wired network for some drops/rooms, but figure it would be better to go wireless for others.

House will be done in about 7 months, so would not buy hardware until then. Just need to have wiring planned...

What is the best wireless option available now -- or what should be out by like June '04? I have not followed wireless, but now am suddenly interested. I believe "G" is like 54 mbit-ish... but think I've heard of something that may be 100+ mbit... yes?

Is "G" fully backwards compatible, and if so, does it "ruin" the whole network if you run a B at the same time as a G client?

What sort of range should I expect? I need to figure out where to put the access point to have ethernet and electrical wired into it...

Floor plans:

First floor - considering putting it in the pantry for centrality

http://www.goglen.com/JAlbum/KB_Homes/slides/2947%20Floor-%20First.JPG


Second floor - considering linen closet at the top of the stairs, to be in the "middle" of the floor. However, the walk-in closet off the Loft area will be my electronics cabinet for my home theater (the Loft), so will have lots of wiring there already, including network for TiVo and AudioTron. Probably eventually house RAID-5 server... would it be good enough for wireless access point, or would there be too much house inbetween it and downstairs opposite corner?

I believe, if I go with their networking option, they put the patch panel in the master bedroom closet. Would that be good enough for the WAP?

http://www.goglen.com/JAlbum/KB_Homes/slides/2947%20Floor-%20Second.JPG

Any help, or pointers to more information, would be appreciated. I have 16 more days to finalize my options (such as power locations, in order to qualify for a $300 credit by completing options 19 days after contract was signed).

For those interested in the house, the Photo Album (showing the plot, as well as the model)
http://www.goglen.com/JAlbum/KB_Homes/index.html

[cove]

Haven't heard of anything currently available with a better theoretical throughput of 54Mbps (802.11a & g).
g devices work with b devices, since they are both 2.4GHz
a devices are 5GHz, that freq may be less crowded

I have read some reviews that state when you have a "b" devices accessing a "g" access point, it will slow the g device down a lot.

A recent development is that there are some access points that can be bridged wirelessly to broaden your coverage area. Previously these had to be connected with ethernet cabling.

More info here:

http://www.linksys.com/edu/wirelessstandards.asp

I prefer the g devices myself, that way my older b devices will work. But there are now some access points and wireless cards available that have all three: a, b & g

Might wanna check Tom's Hardware Guide to see what he has tested.

[VitaMan]

Thanks for the info...

Hopefully more FLG'ers who have used the various toys will respond with their experiences, etc...

The more input, the better!

[GotNoRice]

Can’t go wrong with G. Yeah, there are some that will do 108 but you’re talking proprietary tech. There was the same thing with those “22mbps enhanced B” access points a while back. Unless you want to commit yourself to buying all from the same brand, with spotty compatibility down the road, I think it’s best to just stick to the specs.

A few things

Using B devices on a G network will slow things down.
You’re looking at about half the rated speed with wireless, and even less if the signal isn’t great.

A is interesting in that it doesn’t have the same frequency interference issues as B (won’t have to worry about mobile phone/microphone hurting your net performance). Might even go so far as to get a triband access point (A and B/G) using A for any non mobile devices, but that would probably just make things too complicated.

If you take the access point and place it on the upper floor toward the center of the house, you should have good coverage. Another option is that a lot of the access points support roaming w/ multiple access points provided they are both connected to the same wired network. That might be a route to consider.

[codemachine]

Also, beware of major appliances. If there is a running dishwasher or microwave between you and your access point, signal strength can be degraded significantly. Like GNR said, you cold also do the multiple AP thing. Since you're already running cable, pick 2 spots in opposite corners of the house and wire up 2 AP's with the same name and WEP key and just put them on two channels at least 3 numbers apart (ie. 2 and 6).

Edit: As far as range goes, I think under ideal conditions it's supposed to be 30 meters. Can't remember off hand, but bare in mind the composition of the walls and whats running inside them. The more RF Opaque the walls are, the less range, obviously. Unless you have alluminum walls or the buildings entire collection of water pipes is running through the one wall you need the signal to get through, you should be fine.

[Area51_FLG]

Vita:

Your building a 6,000 square foot home?????

Where? How Much? Who is the builder?

Please PM me if you would like to keep it hush, hush. My wife and I are shopping now for the same, would like to see what you came up with.

Thanks dude

[xwred1]

If you're building your own house, isn't right now a great time to put a couple drops in every room? Should be relatively cheap and easy shouldn't it?

[VitaMan]

Originally posted by Area51_FLG
Vita:

Your building a 6,000 square foot home?????

My bad -- whole house is 3,000 square feet. Originally, I had the 1st floor and 2nd floor diagrams on the same image (hence the label). I should go change those pictures.

The house is at Independence at Mather. They have 4 floorplans: 2300, 3000, 3650 & 4050 square feet. It is 5 miles south of Hwy-50 off Sunrise.

http://www.goglen.com/JAlbum/KB_Homes/index.html

Here is the builder's website. If you are remotely interested, better move fast; they are very close to being built-out! (only about 15 total properties left, and some of those have houses on them, so if you want a different floorplan, you're limited to an empty lot).

On my website's photo album (above link), photo 4 shows the side of the development we are on. Most of the available spots are the whole row across from our plot (with the squiggly line). The picture #5 shows the relative sizes of the first 7 of those empty plots (square footage, followed by decimal of how many acres, like "15437 .35") Those properties all open up to huge protected wetlands behind them, so no neighbors. One plot is 0.52 acres!

Click here (http://www.kbhomes.com/community/CommunityMgrPageDetail.asp?commid=00562550&sid=538615919) for the builder's website for the area. Note, larger lots carry a premium price of $5k-$20k over the listed price

(edit: fixed the floorplan pictures)

[cove]

I stand corrected, yup, there are the "turbo" models that state they have better throughput, e.g. Netgear has a wireless router that says it does 108Mbps when used with their matched card.

I don't think that ANY 802.11 wireless varation evar gets to its stated max, even when it is next to the device. Well, maybe when it is next to the device, but as soon as you increase the distance, throughput throttles back.

Couldn't find any windows hardware that talks about wireless bridging of access points (just did a quick search), but here is what Apple says about their newest base station:

"AirPort Extreme lets you use wireless bridging to increase your range beyond the standard 150-foot coverage. Bridging, which allows one AirPort Extreme Base Station to connect to another AirPort Extreme Base Station, eliminates the need to run expensive cables to extend a network. Previously, all AirPort Base Stations required a physical connection to the Internet. With wireless bridging, two or more AirPort Extreme Base Stations can be connected wirelessly, effectively increasing the range of your network."

Heh heh, "expensive cables", freaking marketing dorks, cat 5 is not expensive...

But anyway, there are probably other hardware vendors that sell wireless access points that do the same. And, also, airport base stations work with windows boxes of course.

L8r

[Defiant One]

Originally posted by Area51_FLG
My wife

Who, and more importantly WHEN where you given permission to get married? This is a recent upgrade?

[Bullfrog]

You want to put the WAP in the most wide open space possible. You don't want to put it in a closet or in tightly inclose space. I have a Cisco Aironet 350 that is sitting in the middle of my kitchen on top of the cabinets. I can cross my street and still have strong signal from my AP.

Most of the 'consumer' grade APs have (Linksys, D-Link, Netgear) have good signal stregth. But they don't come close to Cisco, Proxim, or Nortel stuff. If you want MAX with consumer then use multiple APs.....one up / one down. Or buy one really good enterprise class unit. You will spend about the same amount of money IMO.

[Anasazi]

Originally posted by Bullfrog
You want to put the WAP in the most wide open space possible. You don't want to put it in a closet or in tightly inclose space. I have a Cisco Aironet 350 that is sitting in the middle of my kitchen on top of the cabinets. I can cross my street and still have strong signal from my AP.

Most of the 'consumer' grade APs have (Linksys, D-Link, Netgear) have good signal stregth. But they don't come close to Cisco, Proxim, or Nortel stuff. If you want MAX with consumer then use multiple APs.....one up / one down. Or buy one really good enterprise class unit. You will spend about the same amount of money IMO.


I second this motion. I'd go with Cisco (http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/wireless/index.html) or Nortel (http://www.nortelnetworks.com/products/data/router.html).

[VitaMan]

Well, since I have not yet determined how much the "digital experts" subcontractors will charge to wire in each drop... I am still speculating. I may do a hard wire (gigabit - if they only do 100 mbit, I'll gouge their intestines out with a spoon) for each bedroom and the loft. In that case, I can wait on wireless until I have a need...

It all depends on how much these ignorant Nazis charge for a pathetically easy job (stringing a freaking wire into a house being built. Duh, I could do each in about 10 minutes).

***

Of course, when la Casa is done, there will be definitely be a major par-tay :)

[FAngel]

Dont even tell them you want gigabit, just make sure it is cat5e cable or better. Thell charge you more if you say gigabit, but as long as you have the cat5e cable or better, your fine.
If possiable have you ethernet patch panel put in the same area as your telephone interface and coax cable panel, that way you can easially patch phones at any jack without much effort.

[xwred1]

Whether you go wireless or not, I'd still try to drop in every reasonable room if I were you. Having ethernet outlets in your house from the beginning would be alot nicer than trying to do something later.

[acelefty]

Jeeeez, those Cisco APs are all over 400 bux on ebay.... That is kinda spendy. I am gonna have to save my pennies for while until I can get one of those bad boys. :(

[cove]

Originally posted by acelefty
Jeeeez, those Cisco APs are all over 400 bux on ebay.... That is kinda spendy. I am gonna have to save my pennies for while until I can get one of those bad boys. :(

Use whatevar access points ya got now then you can upgrade 'em later if ya wanna

[acelefty]

That's the plan. I have a Netgear now which I never have any problems with, however, the signal is very weak in the backyard.

[xwred1]

1) Buy a prism2 card
2) Put it into a 486
3) Turn on hostap mode
4) Connect amps and huge antennas as needed.

[codemachine]

Originally posted by xwred1
1) Buy a prism2 card
2) Put it into a 486
3) Turn on hostap mode
4) Connect amps and huge antennas as needed.

lol, I've done that before!!! I'm working on doing that to my truck actually. If I can just afford to finish the freakin project... st00pid equipmnent costing st00pid money... :mad:

EDIT: I just realized that when I finish this, I could conceivably give new meaning to the term high-tech-redneck. All I'd have to do is add a gun rack and start wearing bib-overalls while talking in my West-By-God-Virginia accent...

[xwred1]

An access point in your truck? Wouldn't you rather have a merciless access-point finder in your truck?

What I'd like to do eventually:
Computer in trunk, boot Linux off cf, randomly huge hd full of mp3s, connected to random vga lcd in my dash. 802.11b card, gps, sprint pcs pcmcia card.

In addition to playing mp3s, constantly scan for networks and map them with the gps. Park by my house and upload more mp3s via the wireless con. Use the sprint pcs card to stream mp3s from my house or otherwise access the net.

Would be a nice system.

[enervate]

Wait Vita, where's the LAN room at? The Super Bonus Room looks viable, but those stairs ... elevator?

[VitaMan]

Originally posted by enervate
Wait Vita, where's the LAN room ... elevator?

Bwahahaha. No, house is on almost 0.4 acres... so you can sit outside. Or, if it is hot, get in the garage. That should hold quite a few peeps.

The "loft" (Bonus Room) is going to be the home theater - complete with 100+ inch HDTV projection screen, 7.1 THX surround-sound, bar, fridge, etc :)

[Donnie_Doritos]

Originally posted by VitaMan
100+ inch HDTV projection screen :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

edit: :eek: :eek:

[VitaMan]

Originally posted by Donnie_Doritos
edit: :eek: :eek:

To give you a "hint" of what my goal is, this is a guy I know here in Sacramento. I already have the same main speakers already -- all I need is the room, and then the projector (and the time/money/effort to make the room into a "theater"):

http://forum.av123.com/photopost/data/500/54HT-037.jpg

****

Yes, there will be movie nights at the Vita House. Realistically, that may be up to 1 year from now (7-9 months just until the house is finished being built)...

[enervate]

Oh Em Jee

[Gremlin]

Hey I can fit that can kind of stuff in my house too :) Anywayz I saw the same setup from JMC Homes in Elkgrove and that house costed about approx $620,000.